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Alexa Ashley: I'm Alexa Ashley, and this is Eyes Wide. In this episode, we get to hear from fashion, portrait and lifestyle photographer, Caitlyn Gaurano. She gives us an inside look at growing up in a sexist household and overcoming negativity to pursue joy. Caitlyn aims to create supportive, loving, and engaging communities for BIPOC and LGBTQ+ artists all around the world through artistry and creativity.

Alexa Ashley: So maybe tell me, what was it like growing up as you, as a kid, when you were like 10 or younger?

Caitlyn Gaurano: I'm trying to think back. Growing up felt like really... I just remember puberty, very intense and emotional, always crying, always angry as a kid, I always felt like I was smiley and jumpy and energetic. But then I had the opposite of that as well, where I was kicking, screaming, filled with so much rage and hate. Cause I didn't understand anyone's point of view.

I was just like, “I want this, how come they're not giving it to me?” sort of mentality or like, “I want my mother's attention. Why isn't she giving me that?” I was also very attached to my mom. She was the most comfortable thing for me. I feel like a lot of children are like that. Literally I never wanted to leave her side. Like she would be in the bathroom and I would be knocking on the door, like “Mom, can I come in?”

And she would sit me on her lap. I would have to be around her all the time. Even if she were taking a shower or like cooking or doing stuff, driving around, I'd be like, “I want to come. I want to be with you.” She was like a safe space for me. And growing up, I had... I'm one of seven, so there's a lot of siblings.

So a lot of people in the house, and it always seemed normal to me cause I didn't know anything else. When people always ask me, like, “Oh, how was that?” And like, it was fine. I mean of course there's a lot of fighting or we butt heads a lot. But there's always someone to play with.

Or like tease, we were such a teaseful family. Growing up, we were very teaseful. Like we would prank each other, do stupid shit. Yeah. But I was very connected to my sisters and I would always play games with them. We would host little radio shows on our cassette tapes. We were always dancing together.

My mom would put us in dance classes. My mom was very involved with us because my dad wanted us to homeschool. So she was our teacher. She also put us in like extracurricular activities. I felt like she really pushed us to find our interests and what we love to do. We didn't know, so she threw us into different activities, which was really awesome of her to do. I realized that I had a lot of privilege in that way too, because my parents gave me so much of an opportunity. And then of course I'm traumatized by the fact that my dad was so abusive growing up.

He has anger management issues and I would watch him tear my mother down mentally and hit her and abuse her. And then he would abuse my brothers, my older brothers. And he would abuse basically everyone. Yeah. He was very strong, he had a lot of strong energy that he was able to manipulate us into basically getting to do what he wants.

“... I just remember puberty, very intense and emotional, always crying, always angry as a kid, I always felt like I was smiley and jumpy and energetic. But then I had the opposite of that as well, where I was kicking, screaming, filled with so much rage and hate.”

—Caitlyn Gaurano

I would lay at night and I would share this with my siblings. And we all sort of felt the same thing that we would lay at night thinking like “What's tomorrow gonna be like?” So we would start to have anxiety. Like, “Is dad gonna hit us again tomorrow? Is he gonna be happy?”

“What's his emotions going to be like? I don't know. I don't know what tomorrow's going to bring, but I’m scared and I'm anxious about it.” And so that was basically every night. Living underneath that house with him was—Oh, man—going to bed was like, “Oh, today was finally a good day. Everything went smoothly. I didn't piss off my dad. He didn't get angry at me. I did everything he wanted me to do. We're good.”

And then he would snap or something and you're like, “Fuuuck.” Yeah. And then of course, like being homeschooled, it's like, you're stuck in that shit. You have nowhere else to go. You just have like these extra curricular activities that kind of save you from the house of anger. So yeah, that's what it was like being young.

Alexa Ashley: That's super cool that your mom encouraged you to find what you all are passionate about. Do you think part of that would be to help you get out of that house too? Or do you think it was just purely like wanting to help you all find what you're interested in?

Caitlyn Gaurano: The more that I analyzed my family and my parents, she was sort of like projecting off of what her parents didn't do. Her parents still love her. But, she wanted to give even more because she loved being creative.

She loved playing the piano. She loved singing. She loved Broadway. She loves writing. And yet she became a pharmacist. I think it was to please her parents. And so when she gave us the opportunity to put us in all these different things, I think she wanted us to explore that creativity that she had too.

And I think she wanted us to see us do something more with it, instead of something that she couldn't. I think it was because she was just sort of projecting off of her need for creativity. She wanted her kids to experience that joy, that the creativity you get does to you. And it really does foster a lot of life and curiosity about the world and joy.

So I feel like she really wanted us to have that. Yeah, it sucks that she was with my dad because I feel like everything happens for a reason, but like, he really didn't like what she was trying to do for us. I love dancing so much. And the only reason why I was able to dance was because my mom put me in these dance classes and then I started to love it and she saw that I enjoyed it so much.

So she kept pushing me to be in more classes and then I started to compete and actually take it seriously. And it was my dad that pulled me out of the whole thing that I enjoyed. And then I thought dance really was my life. I was like, “What can I do with this? I don't know, but I love it.”

And then he sort of put one perspective on it where, you know, “Is it really gonna make you any money, Caitlyn? What can you do with it? That doesn't work in this world,” sort of thing. So he pulled me out of that and it twisted my whole reality of like, “You can't make a living with art and joy, that's not a possibility.” So he was like the complete opposite of my mom who's exerting love and joy through art and creativity and music.

Alexa Ashley: It sucks that you can have one parent that is supportive but then it can't completely make up for the other parent. It feels like it should be able to balance out, but it's still hard. You talked about those periods of having extreme joy and exuberance.Then like the swing side of rage and sadness. Do you have a sense of where that came from? Why it was like that for you?

Caitlyn Gaurano: So the joy that I had was like, when things were very light and I mean, as a kid, I was just always happy to be around people that were laughing and who I felt were welcoming. Wait, what's the question really? Sorry.

Alexa Ashley: I was wondering if you had a sense or was able to process, where those kinds of extreme ends came from or that rage?

Caitlyn Gaurano: I dunno. I always felt like when I was angry, I loved to stay in that anger. Cause I didn't know what else to do with it....you built all this energy up and it explodes and it's sort of addicting and you don't want to let go of it because it feels so good. And it's really more of a cry for like, “I just need attention.”

I didn't know what kind of needs I wanted. Cause I didn't know how to communicate that. As a kid, you're using examples from your parents. So if your parents lash out, the only way you know how to react to certain things or how to be is angry. So I never saw a really calm family.

I wasn't in a calm family and when I was a kid, I would go to friend's houses and I'd be like, “Wow, it's so calm in here. Like no one is upset. Everyone's really quiet,” but going to my house, it's like, it has to be loud. It had to be, cause my dad was monstrous—as a visual—with his energy.

And there was always screaming, there was always loud music playing. I mean, it was always just loud inside, but even with my mom, she sounded like—she was a very wonderful person, but she wasn't perfect either. And she would also have anger issues because of what she was dealing with, with my dad at the time.

And I didn't know, but she would be angry as well. And so, I didn't know how to control my anger because I saw my parents as examples of how to be. I thought that was like the way, you know.

Alexa Ashley: That makes sense. You mentioned your mom was super supportive and got you in all these things and was also your anchor. It seems like you're saying you were feeling a desire for more attention.

Caitlyn Gaurano: Yeah. I think it's because it's like that middle child syndrome that people love to talk about every time I'm like, “Oh yeah I'm the middle child.” They're like, “Oh, you've got the middle child syndrome.” And I didn't quite understand, but yeah, I just, I feel like sometimes growing up in that family, I just never felt really seen or heard—that I was just kind of like forgotten about. But then when I talked to my younger sister, she felt like the middle child, she felt like she wasn't seen and heard.

So I think it's just like a common denominator for most. The boys were always highly respected by my dad and I'd be really jealous when he would pull them aside only. I felt like he was sharing the secret of wealth and money management. And I wanted to be a part of that.

And I remember sneaking into the office and they were having a meeting and I wanted to stay for a bit. And my dad was like, “Oh Honey, can you just go and shut the door? I’m having a talk with the boys. We're doing a talk with the boys only.” And they were talking about stocks and everything.

And I was like, so interested. So it was also very like a sexist household. Like it just annoyed me that I couldn't, why can't I have that information as well? So I just felt like I was kind of treated as like this dumb, pretty girl and I really took that to heart because I would always blame myself and say that I'm stupid. And that was my inner dialogue, “I'm stupid. I'm fucking stupid. I'm stupid. I'm stupid. I don't know anything like that.” I don't get it because homeschooling was so hard for me. School was hard. I didn't understand anything or I didn't know how to interpret the information that I was receiving.

And so my mom would go and find educators to test me, to see if I had a disability and it ended up that I had some sort of learning disability, but I was so good at other things like dance. I was able to pick up movement and understand music and body movement through that. Science, math and all of that shit was just so hard. Writing was so hard. It just never stuck the way that music and dance did.

“As a photographer, it's cool ‘cause you get to meet different creatives all the time. I think the art scene in any city is so cool because you meet open-minded people. Like these are the types of people I would want to be around all the time…I found that my camera has given me this avenue to reach these amazing people.”

—Caitlyn Gaurano

Alexa Ashley: It seems like music and dancing still gives you a lot of life and expression today— despite what your dad told you or withheld from you. You made your own business doing photography and realizing your dreams.

Caitlyn Gaurano: I think that has motivated me to prove that I'm not stupid...maybe thinking that my dad thinks that about me, “Oh, she's just a girl just playing around with the camera.” I think that constantly makes me want to push myself.

I've worked really hard at my photography career. I found something that I really have enjoyed. I thought about going back into dance and it's always still there. I just get tired easily. I've done a lot and I'm still growing my business and still trying to navigate it. And it's been really hard and a lot of fun—hard and so rewarding and it feels so good to be in control of something that a lot of people don't want to do.

Actually photography is very saturated, but it feels like my own thing that I can call my own and yeah, it's been a journey. I've been in many different little art shows around Brooklyn. And then it grew to me moving back home and curating my own fashion shoots and then getting them published in online magazines and then networking with different artists around San Diego and finally connecting with this dope woman who found my work to be good enough to be in her gallery to have my own solo show. And it's been so exciting ever since.

As a photographer, it's cool cause you get to meet different creatives all the time. I think the art scene in any city is so cool because you meet open-minded people. Like these are the types of people I would want to be around all the time. Instead of like finance bros or like people that only care about money all the time. And money is great too. But when you center it into your life, it's so capitalistic and it's just on the surface sort of thing.

And people don't like vulnerability. And don't like to seek other forms of living, spirituality or religion or whatever, deeper talks. I don't know. I found that my camera has given me this avenue to reach these amazing people.

Alexa Ashley: I know that the journey—being a professional creative—can be so hard and a lot of our parents in America don't really value art because we are such a Capitalist country and nation. And since Capitalist ideas are ingrained, the country values what is going to make the most money. And for some reason, art is not seen as that. And a small percentage of creatives makes a lot. And for most, it's medium and then a lot of artists just get washed away here by just the sheer struggle of pushing yourself so hard to make a living out of it. You started in studying fashion and then photography. What was that driving force for you growing up and then pursuing that in school?

Caitlyn Gaurano: I think art is appreciated in certain cities. Like the big ones in the States, New York, for sure. I don't know how much money the city funds the art budget but I'm sure most of it goes to the big galleries which kind of sucks cause they already have so much money. And maybe LA as well, but it always has to be in a capitalistic view.

Photography goes more into the direction of like Instagram and like influencers and marketing. But the art part of it is really beautiful. The way people capture their surroundings, how they capture humans. Where is the funding for that? And I feel like that's really under appreciated—the art side of photography, the fine art photography part.

So I think I'm just trying to navigate that, what do I really want to do? Continue to make money for people and brands or make photos for me and see if that could sell even more? So, it's like a constant conflict and I think I could do both. I don't see why not...what brings me more joy? Probably just doing my own shit. Right?

I started off doing fashion. I went to the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising because I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school. I wish I knew that people could just take a year off after graduation and travel the world.

...I just felt the pressure of people saying, “Oh, well, what are you going to do after high school?” And I really didn't have a plan. All my friends had plans—it's like, that was like their goal in life was to go to a certain college.

My dad even was like, “This is your goal in life is to go to college.” It wasn't like, “Well, what do you want to do for the rest of your life?” And I felt like I really never had the time to explore. I mean, you're just a kid when you're coming out of high school and you have to now decide forever, what you want to do with your life?

So I felt like I chose fashion because I thought that sounded fun and I do love fashion. I think it's another creative outlet to express yourself. I think it's so much fun when people don't really give a fuck about how they look in public and they just wear whatever they want. And it always turns out really amazing.

I got a Business Management major and I forgot what degree? Oh God—no—merchandise. Sorry. (Laughing) I got an AA in Merchandise Marketing and then a BS in Business Management. And I thought I wanted to become a buyer because I knew people. They said that you make a lot of money. And that was my only goal was like, “Okay, well I want to make a lot of money.” And then I learned when I had a copywriting job that I hated being behind a desk and it wasn't fun for me.

I always had a job in retail. That was like my only job for the longest time...retail. And I was really good with people. And so I felt like through those retail jobs, I realized that I knew how to communicate. And I was really interested in people's stories because I was also curious how I could live my life.

And so I loved asking people a lot of questions and I'm sure maybe they were annoyed, but they were very giving of their stories. So when I moved to New York, I never really got into the art scene that intensely until I moved there and met Kel (Kelli Lucas) and all her friends, and it was through them that I realized like, wow, you can make a living with art.

Like that's so cool. So photography just sort of spoke to me because I was moving to a city where I experienced everything that I never knew I could. And so I wanted to keep those memories. So I started taking photos and then they looked really cool and people were like, “Oh wow. Like, you should take it seriously.” And I didn't think about that for a while. And I got really excited about it. And then I just started contacting my friends to model, contacted people with cool brands to use their clothes. And that's how it really kicked off.

It was stressful because I didn't know what I was doing, but invigorating because I was now creating something that I didn't know I could.

Alexa Ashley: Did you have to navigate conversations or emotions—within yourself or externally—with your dad on doing art? What was that dialogue like? Whether internal or with him? How has that been?

Caitlyn Gaurano: After my mom and dad divorced, we stopped talking to him. My mom put a restraining order on him, so he wasn't really allowed to contact us or see us without a third party there. And I decided to not really reach out to him or talk to him because it was so good without him—like amazing.

It was really hard. He was the breadwinner for a really long time. So we were financially secure. And then when the divorce hit, it was so hard for my mom, for us…My siblings and I just decided to not talk to him anymore. And so his voice wasn't really in my head when I decided to do photography. I would talk to my mom and she was so supportive.

She's like, “Oh my God, I love that. I think that's so exciting for you. You're such a visual person.” So she really backed me up and helped me gain more confidence to like, “okay, yeah, I could do this. I could become a photographer.” So when I told my dad that I was a photographer, when we did get a chance to talk, yeah, he had a tone where it was like, “Ohhhhh,” like a tone that was making me feel like I wasn't good enough.

And I felt like I had to prove myself again to him and that was like a long time ago. Now I don't really give a fuck what he thinks because he is someone that needs help and is the type of person that doesn't want to get help. He says he does. And he says he's like doing all these things, but he's just the person that still blames and holds on to things and victimizes himself after, I don't even know. I think it's been like almost 20 years. He's still in that time of like when everything happened—of the divorce.

Alexa Ashley: An important learning lesson for people that are struggling with a voice—whether it's in themselves or from somebody else—that is not supportive of who they are. Sometimes the best, most healthiest option, is to just cut it out. I think that can be scary and hard for a lot of people, but it seems like it was helpful for you in your trajectory to being your fullest self—that joyful, happy self. That's your true self. Do you have any words of wisdom or advice for a younger you, that was in the depths of that household and struggling with not being seen or being seen and not appreciated for who you are—being told that you have to be something different? What would you say to them?

Caitlyn Gaurano: So the advice that I would give to myself when I wasn't feeling seen or heard by my family is just to not take it personally, that everyone has their own path. If you feel like your family is not hearing you, maybe they're going through something too that you don't know about. Everyone is traumatized.

Everyone is going through something. And it's okay to not always know if they're going through something or not, but to just focus on you and to not give up on yourself, to keep exploring stuff that makes you feel good. And to do those things only, you should not try and do things just to get attention from others because that's not going to make you happy.

Alexa Ashley: I saw your work on your website and it's amazing and super innovative and quirky and expanding and creative. I love what you've been doing here (at the Sanah Art Residency in Tulum, Mexico)—your latest portrait and how you have been talking about coming into your sexuality and feeling free. How you're dropping more into that, doing what you love and what feels good with photography and seemingly like your personal life stuff too. What has that journey been like?

Caitlyn Gaurano: Thank you. I love all those comments, that makes me feel really good. I love the way you describe my photography, cause I never can put words to it. I sort of come to like a stop with my photography almost. And I've been feeling like I didn't know where to take it. I felt like fashion is really fun, but sometimes the people that you want to collaborate with, maybe don't want to, and it kind of ruins it. For a fashion shoot, you need really awesome people. And it's been hard because of COVID and you have to do everything all over Instagram. And usually that's how I do it, but I make better connections in person. And I feel like when people understand my vibe, my energy, they'll want to fuck with me and actually do shit with me.

Online it's been hard for me to communicate that sort of energy. I like taking photos of myself, but not that much. I don't find it that fun to do. Cause I don't see myself being constantly on the gram. I've been trying to explore some deeper meaning behind what I show on camera, through my eyes.

And I guess it has been about me. It's kind of funny. Cause I said, I didn't like to be on the gram all the time, but this trip, I didn't know what to expect. I've been growing more spiritually for sure. I grew up in a very Catholic conservative family and that sort of inspired me somehow to seek spirituality without really a construct—a religion to be part of.

I felt like that (Catholicism) was very constricting for me. There's so many rules. There's so many things about heaven and hell. And there wasn't enough about us living on earth. It wasn't focused more on living and living life to the fullest and coming to terms with trauma and having more empathy—because that’s going to make you feel good.

Religion felt more about, you got to do this because if you don't, you're going to hell. So it was like, we were preparing more for death rather than for life. And why did I talk about that? Oh yeah. So being here (in Tulum), it's just sort of really relaxed me and I knew I wanted to document this trip and the people that were in it.

And so that was my main goal, but I didn't think I was going to do something on me. And I think it's been the relationship with Kel on this trip. We've had something before in the past and then being here together sort of sparked that again—a new sort of beautiful relationship again, because at the time I was very scared and hesitant and here I feel more comfortable with myself.

Like before I was on this trip, I've already been healing myself, becoming more comfortable with my own identity. And it just feels really right to be here with all these different personalities that are so amazing, that listen, that are here for you, supportive. It just made me realize that life doesn't have to be the same.

That's why I love meeting people because their stories are like, “Oh yeah, I lived here. I lived in Thailand for a year. And then I moved here for two years and I've gone and talked to the monks in wherever. And I'm so enamored by a life lived so freely and this (Sanah Art Residency in Tulum) for me felt very free.”

There was no routine. There was no plan. We're staying here for free because of an exchange for art, like how cool is that? I've never had that opportunity. So I wanted to challenge myself in a way to take this time, to let go of all the pressures and stresses of life that the city always gives you. And I still feel those pressures. On this journey, it's like the only pressure that I had to think about was like, what was I going to create?

I feel like that was such a whirlwind of words, but I guess the creation behind my self portrait was that I am now finally understanding a little bit more of my identity. I still don't think I know everything about me yet, because every time I say that “I'm this,” I learn something even more, then I'm like, “Whoa, I didn't even think about that.”

I didn't expect myself to become this amazing person—or not that I'm amazing. You know what I mean? I'm amazing. But I just said that so that I can manifest or put that out as a positive affirmation about myself.

Alexa Ashley: What do you think in this latest piece that you are letting go of or learning about yourself or expressing?

Caitlyn Gaurano: “This piece, it's a reminder for me to let me know that I am more than I will ever know. That I am more, that I am a badass bitch, that I have value being here and that I am worth it. And I'm not small. That I am this force.” So that's why the butterflies are there. Because it expands my energy out into the world.

“This piece—it's a reminder…that I am more than I will ever know…that I am a badass bitch, that I have value being here and that I am worth it. And I'm not small. That I am this force.”

—Caitlyn Gaurano

Eyes Wide is supported by members around the world

Photography by Alexa Ashley (#1, #2 & #3) & Caitlyn Gaurano (all others)

Theme music by Kymani Thomas

Hosted by Alexa Ashley

Audio Editing by Infinite Sounds

Overcoming Abuse, Anger and Sexism to Pursue Joy—Caitlyn Gaurano